Transcript #8

Episode 8

welcome back to the Carpentry Australia podcast

it’s Matty and I’m here with the fantastic Adrian Gillman 

tell us a little bit about yourself man.

Yes started off I start off as a as a labourer

I had a really good builder that I worked for

who amazed me with his skill set in doing quantities.

it’s Matty and I’m here with the fantastic Adrian Gillm

and that’s where I I always want to be in the building industry.

come from a family of plumbers and other trades.

and yeah so I sort of said to him any chance

of getting an apprenticeship and I started with him

and the way we went yeah nice nice and like

how many years ago was that like when

did you start your apprenticeship 32 years ago yeah

do you remember your first day

yeah I do

because he was a he was an English builder

no tape measure

looked at everything and just started giving me measurements

and write them down and then that was for about the first hour

and then he taught me how to make tea

he used to drink about eight cups of tea a day

yeah and that was my main role

so making tea on football club

yeah right

he was Tottenham supporter

and it was basically I had to come with a fact about Tottenham

yeah do I follow for English football

not at all but and

the things that you sort of Learned from from him

you know all those years ago

that you still sort of have as part of your practices today

or even just more the the people skills

so he was he was a really good people’s person

and probably a salesman without being that sort of hard

hammer home salesman he just

he just spoke really well and he was

he was good with people and he and he cared about what he was doing

so people he he did a lot of jobs that had problems

he’d take over jobs that had problems and he’d fix the problems

and I was like that’s that’s what I wanna do

I wanna be that person that fixes

hence why we do renovations and extensions

we don’t really do new builds

it’s

it’s all the problem jobs that we we like doing today the messy stuff

yeah so you

you said earlier this year it was

there was a couple of things that sort of fell through

and never really had any issues with

you know keeping work going

what’s something that drives that

is it all sort of word of mouth work

is it you set up six months in advance

how do you keep going from one job to the next

well I think most of our work well

80% of our work comes from word of mouth obviously

we do well on Google we’ve got a fair few reviews

and we’ve never really done any paid advertisement

but we’ve got a presence on on Google

we do the Facebook we do the Instagram we mix with the right people

that’s sort of been our main thing

when when it all sort of went really quiet

I went really sort of holy hell

what’s going on and that’s when I sort of went alright

maybe we need to look at Google paid ads

do we need to look at rankings and and how we SEO stuff and how we

yeah back to the old advertising in in the local paper I mean yeah

when I first started out I took out a advert

you know in the local paper yeah

as most people did or did letterbox drop yeah

we do Google ads now we’re probably saying that we get about 25% okay

30% coming in from Google ads leads as well

yes and no so at the start it was it was everything you you name it

there was we were getting phone calls

can you come and fix the door lock

it’s funny

but at the time after after a couple months of the boys not working

we’re gonna fix that door lock

so we did that

then obviously with the with the agency that we’re working with

we sort of said to him look

we love it and we love helping people on the the small scale

but we also we’re we’re big scale people

yeah too

so we wanna do the big scale helping and the little scale

so we we tweaked a few things a few keywords and yeah

it’s it’s it’s changed it’s turned around

so a lot of them now are very early stage prospects okay

so it’s then it’s just obviously working with them and

and basically selling yourself to them

that you’re the person that’s gonna help them

get through that process and

and get to the end goal is what

what they want yeah

and what about what about some systems that you’ve got in place

so obviously dealing with clients everyone does it differently

do you have like a program that you use

or do you have like sort of certain systems that help you with the

the client process

yes and no we’ve we’ve gone through a few different

systems that are out there

we used that we used Crew Tracker for a long time yep

that was probably more an in house system for us and and me and the

and the boys knowing where they are and and that sort of stuff

we probably grew that pretty quick

and my focus shifted from probably the crew

my crew to more of a customer base focus

so we’re currently look

talking with our website designers now about having a client portal

put in we use WhatsApp at the moment

I know a lot of people do a lot of people do yeah

set up a page for that or

or a group and then everyone’s got the communication

we put photos in there daily

it’s just purely so the client can see what’s going on

but I’d really like it to be more of an in house sort of thing

we are looking at uh another company called RT Digital at the moment

yeah

where they take all our incoming leads from all various points

social media phone so that’s a big one for me at the moment

my phone rings off the hook

and the boys get annoyed

because I’m on the phone more than I’m actually doing work or

or guiding them if they want information

then I’m the one holding the information and I’m on the phone

so yeah answer the phone not not a chatbot style

we can program it apparently so I’ve got the meeting tomorrow

we can program it to ask the questions that we need to quantify

to see whether or not we’re actually taking that job up now

or whether it’s gonna be a slow burn job to get it through yeah

but that’s it that’s our systems at the moment

we’ve looked looked at a lot of different ones

a lot of them have parts of what you want

but not everything well not everything that I want

so I’m sure that they they’re great for other bad people

all my mates at trades based businesses yeah

I got a mate the plumber who swears by service mate and he showed me

I reckon probably 20 or 30 times how great it is

and this is what you do but it doesn’t suit our business yeah

I can see how it suits his cause he’s a he’s a service based business

yeah cause we’re a long long game sort of thing yeah

there’s nothing really there I haven’t found yet for us

and I’m if if anyone does know anything

more than happy to send it through to Maddie

so I can find out it just says yeah

but but technology you have to embrace it

it’s part of the world we live in now

and as builders and as carpenters even carpenters yeah

like

the boys use sometimes that quick chippy app just for calculations

calculations stuff like that

so me I have hundreds of pieces of wood scattered around the site

with all different numbers and drawings all over them

but they use these and and they find it helpful

so why not if it’s gonna make your life better 100% you

you should be embracing it

I think yeah yeah

and you find that you know

even after being in the trade for 30+ years you you

you’re embracing technology side of things and you know

cause I think some of the older builders and some of the

blokes from the previous generation are definitely

they’re not up with the times or they’re not

you’re still very adamant on

you know writing invoices yeah

and sort of doing things a different style

but what benefits do you see

it’s just faster if you can automate

the more you can automate your business

the more time you have yeah

and time is the greatest thing you

you haven’t got it you want it and when you’ve got it

you wanna you wanna spend more

you wanna have more of it because you realize how valuable it is yeah

so yes we use

Quickbooks no

we use XERO we use XERO for our invoicing again

we’ve got a bookkeeper so now she’s fantastic

she doesn’t do a lot

she has payroll for me and she chases up our sending debts

of course so I do all the invoicing and she’ll

she’ll do Bill I’ll pay bills and that sort of stuff yeah

but without that system again

it comes back to to write stuff no right

writing’s dead it’s

it’s yes obviously we write stuff on sites and that sort of stuff

but the other side of it is too

you need notes for everything

you need notes for proof if things go wrong yeah

you need proof you need notes for communication with clients

you need notes for communication with your team

so yeah hundred percent

I’m not the most tech savvy bloke out there I’ve got two 14 year old boys

yeah that will run rings around me any time of the day yeah

but like what tech does I’m

I’m always I’ve got an apprentice

the other day we got out a handsaw and we started using the handsaw

and he was like this is ridiculous

and I’m like it is

but you need to understand this is where we’ve come from yeah

so the great tools we got now we wear 90% battery

we don’t really carry leads yep even that is an advancement from from carrying leads

we got one guy who is all

still two 40 volt power tools and carries leads

yep and just having leads run out and packing up leads

it’s a nightmare

To kill ya yeah

so the more advancements you can have and

and the easier it makes your job and the client’s experience yeah

I think it

it the better you can you can be you should be taking on technology so you’re talking about your apprentice

yeah your crew

but what’s your crew look like now

how how many guys you got on the team and sort of what’s the makeup of

of so start the year we’re at we’re at eight

we had eight guys in the team

we’ve dropped back down to four OK

so me me is as one yup

I’ve got a really experienced chippy

yup who’s about 60 509 90 years old izza it be about 65 maybe

yup and 70 good chippy so yeah good chippy so you’re talking about your apprentice

yeah your crew

but what’s your crew look like now

how how many guys you got on the team and sort of what’s the makeup of

of so start the year we’re at we’re at eight

we had eight guys in the team

we’ve dropped back down to four OK

so me me is as one yup

I’ve got a really experienced chippy

yup who’s about 60 509 90 years old izza it be about 65 maybe

yup and 70 good chippy so yeah good chippy Edit captions

I spent a lot of time bouncing off him

he gives me his opinion whether I ask for it or not

II love it because I don’t have all the answers

I’ve never had all the answers

so the more information that people can give or the more input I’ll

I’ll take them on on any day

I used to use the analogy if we have a race around the block

we both run different directions

we’re both gonna end up at the same point yeah

that’s true so if he’s got a different way of doing it but we end up at the same same point and his ways quicker or

or is it a much better system

hmm why wouldn’t you even go down that sense

yeah so yeah

Pete’s fantastic I’ve got a guy I’ve got an apprentice Jorgen

he’s from Torres Strait Islands oh

there you go yep yep

so good kid tell with us

he went off and worked for another in year 11

he went and did his VCAL with another builder I don’t think he was treated very well with that other builder

and then he rang me back up and said oh

gill have any apprentices gone apprenticeships gone

I said yeah you wanna come down

and and was it through the school based thing

or how did you how did you find him

his mum and my wife work together at some point OK

and there there was a communication through that

and then he but he approached me

I don’t know if this goes out to any any young kids looking to get in the industry yeah

but if you’re a young kid looking to get in the industry for

for old blokes like me

the best thing you can do is ring me and talk to me yep

don’t get your mum to ring me and talk to me

yep don’t send me an email that I don’t know who you are

get on the phone and ring or text

don’t text me please don’t text me

get on the phone and ring

explain who you are explain what you want you’ve got a far greater chance and

and much more respect from me that you’re putting yourself out there

yeah show the initiative

yeah yeah

but if you text me or or message me or get your mum to ring me

there’s no respect I remember look

I think things have obviously changed nowadays

but exactly what you’re saying

I remember my initiation into the workforce was my mum told me to

you know I had to write up my resume and my cover letter and all that stuff

and I had to go and physically introduce myself

yep to Hungry Jack’s or wherever I was going and say hey

I’m Maddie I’m looking for a job

here’s my that was

you had to show initiative

you couldn’t just flick them an email or

you know send them a text or

you know

apply on the website and then never rock up like I would always I would always go in and it was funny

before I got the job here at Carpentry Australia

I actually walked into the previous workplace

and told them that I had a history in electronics

and

I sort of worked as a returns coordinator for a technology company

and they yeah

they had a vacancy and it was only because I was

you know putting my best foot yeah

physically present now like oh yeah we actually are looking at the moment and yeah

then had an interview and sort of so you’re right

think good things can happen if you actually put yourself out there

yeah and that’s it

and look I know it’s hard

I know and having young boys now

the world’s completely different

even with The Apprentice

the world’s completely different music on a radio

you know asking him if he if he knew who

Madonna was and he’s like who

and it’s like

Rodio so now we’re old yeah

well that’s it

that’s what it comes down to

you know so yeah look

he’s a great kid there’s a little bit disconnect

obviously in age and that sort of stuff

but that’s part of the learning too

like we’re learning about how he sees the world if he knew who

Madonna was and he’s like who

and it’s like

Rodio so now we’re old yeah

well that’s it

that’s what it comes down to

you know so yeah look

he’s a great kid there’s a little bit disconnect

obviously in age and that sort of stuff

but that’s part of the learning too

like we’re learning about how he sees the world but you you did what you had to do because a job was

and especially a trade job was valuable yeah

and and you didn’t want to let your boss down

you didn’t want to let your family down

you didn’t want to let yourself down

you’re learning as well yeah

like I think that’s the main thing that some people

you know forget what something I do hear from other builders is that

you know

there’s a bit of that a mentality with some apprentices that they’re they’ve got that sort of level of importance and there’s

there’s I’m trying to think of the word

but the they just sort of want want

want and they’re not really giving

giving back to us giving back as much as possible

but when you’re in when you’re an apprentice

you are a trainee and you’re you’re

you’re get you’re being paid to learn yeah

which is fantastic which is amazing

like it’s unreal that you could you know because people learn and they usually pay to to learn

that’s what’s what university is

you know it’s the opposite

you’re actually learning on the job

and you’re getting a paycheck at the end of the week

and you’re coming away with more skills yep

so I think it’s a good reminder

do you have any other sort of advice for young you know

young chippies young tradies

ask questions yeah ask questions I know you’ll probably drive your boss absolutely nuts

but the only way to learn is to ask yeah

right so everyone learns differently so we all well

most of us know that now school’s not gonna define who you are

so whether you finish year 12 or not

it I know if his parents watching

I know I’ve got two young boys and

and I’m pushing him as far as I can along the line of school and

and learning but it’s not gonna define who they become as people no how they defined as people is how much they learn on their own

by themselves so we’ve all got textbooks

I’ve still got my textbooks from when I did my apprenticeship

and I showed the boys and they’re like

that’s that’s yeah

I was blowing dust off showing them there it is you know

cobwebs you can have a look you know

or

but people some people don’t learn in books

some people look by I will learn by looking some people learn by doing yeah

so but ask questions don’t don’t ever be embarrassed to ask what

what’s happening or what’s doing

because if you don’t ask the question

you’re not gonna learn

and that embarrassment is only gonna get bigger for you

down the track yeah

yeah if you’ve got a boss and you ask him a question and he

and he grills you for asking a question might not be the right boss

yeah so yeah ask questions work hard turn up on time and

and bring a good attitude what about builders as well

so yeah I I’m always interested to hear from you know

you’ve just recently completed your your DBU so a long time coming

yep long process what was that process like for you

to be honest

it was probably different to what I’d imagined it and and again

it was because I never asked the questions I

I literally thought I’d been a chippy for so long I had my DBL when

when the talk was chip is gonna be registered

I went and did it straight away

I probably should just went and done my building licence then

but I sort of just wanted to keep doing what we were doing

but our works sort of evolved more into probably building than

than anything at the moment

so I didn’t realise how long a process it was actually gonna be

and how much not so

much the work in in terms of regs and that sort of stuff I had my DBL when

when the talk was chip is gonna be registered

I went and did it straight away

I probably should just went and done my building licence then

but I sort of just wanted to keep doing what we were doing

but our works sort of evolved more into probably building than

than anything at the moment

so I didn’t realise how long a process it was actually gonna be

and how much not so

much the work in in terms of regs and that sort of stuff it was more around how much work it was to

to get the paperwork together

and then sort of sit we’re sort of sitting in no man’s land

because of a mind shift by us that we were becoming builders

we sort of not turn down work as carpenters

but we sort of went well we sort of got a focus going forward not

but because we sort of got held in a holding pattern with

with the time process made things a lot harder

you couldn’t start those other jobs as well

couldn’t start other jobs yeah and then once you do your tests you do your interviews

you do your tests you do your interviews and you think right

we’re all good to go and then it becomes the well

now you need your insurance

and you gotta go through the insurance process and get the insurance

and you gotta pay for this insurance

and and it just seemed at one stage

it just seemed like all I was doing was going yeah and then once you do your tests you do your interviews

you do your tests you do your interviews and you think right

we’re all good to go and then it becomes the well

now you need your insurance

and you gotta go through the insurance process and get the insurance

and you gotta pay for this insurance

and and it just seemed at one stage

it just seemed like all I was doing was going yeah

just fucking out cash there you go

where where when am I actually gonna get the result yeah

that I’m I’m trying to achieve to get then to be able to start jobs

and we already had client sort of lined up going well

we want to do a Reno and we want to do an extension

and I’m sort of going to them yeah

it’s it’s coming yeah

I’m getting it sort of thing

you know and at one stage we actually had to give away a job

so we are got a mate that’s a builder

and I said to him look here it is all the work’s done yeah

do you wanna have the job

you know you have a look at the take offs

have a look at the profit margin if you’re happy with it

and he went yeah

yeah no worries

so he end up signing it with the clients

and then it was a conversation with those clients around

you know I can’t do it because I don’t have the license to do it

yeah but he has the license to do it yeah and they’re like well

we don’t know him I’m like

well I understand

but I’ll probably end up be doing the job

he’ll just be signing off

and it was he was basically an overseer

came to site yeah

every second day had a look at it

made sure everything was good and took all the money

and I did the work so of course

but look it for me it was

that was it was either that or lose a client completely

yeah so

we’ve already started speaking to the client about another place

they’ve got that they wanna renovate

and we’ve got the license now

so we can we can actually yeah

of course so and what about um

is there any jobs this is always a cool one as well

is there any jobs that have just gone completely sideways

yep and what was like the good

what was the good that came from it

whether it was a lesson

or if the job actually sort of turned it around

you know have you got anything that comes to mind for that

yeah I do start of the year did a Reno in reservoir yep

so it was probably 4 months leading up to it

where communication back and forth everything

everything was good we got in there was a

a wall that had to be bricked up bricklayer in new bricklayer

so did all the right things

I went and met him on his site had a look at his work seem alright

all look beautiful yep

you know

we negotiated a rate he was a bit higher than what we sort of thought

but I was like well

the quality of the works there you know

let’s get one under the belt

and then we’ll see if we can talk to him around maybe yeah

Just coming to the party yeah

he he turned up the job he’s brick this wall and he goes

I’m short about 400 bricks oh shit

I said right I said there’s plenty of bricks here he goes yeah

yeah I’m short I said OK

no worries so I ran and got some bricks

these red bricks got to the site

he’d already left for the day

and I’ve walked in I’ve looked at it and I’m just

I’ve looked at this wall and I just had the lines in it well

oh no and I’m like

and it’s that moment where your heart just sinks

cause you there’s no

I had no control over this obviously

so you’re employing a trade to do what this trade does

yeah and then I’m sitting there going

I do yeah

so do I ring him do I ring the client

which I I know is gonna come at some time in the afternoon

uh and and

and try and hold them off from coming here till we fix it

you know cause obviously if they walk in and see it

they not only they lose faith in the bricklayer

they lose faith in

in you as the builder so how did you manage it

well I rang the client and he

and luckily enough

he was around the corner and he turned up and he goes

what are you ringing for I said

well I said mate

look I said

there’s been a a small hiccup

I said I’m not really sure what’s happened

I haven’t spoke to Ricky yet

and he goes ah

I was wondering if you’re gonna call me ah

so he’d already been there ah OK

yep and I’m like yeah

I said look

I said that’s

that’s not to my standard

I said so I’lו

I’ll speak to the brickie and and he goes well

do you want me to speak to him

I’m like no

that’s not it’s not your position to do that you

you’re the you’re my client

I said I’ll look after your interests

I said rest assured

I said it’ll be fixed yeah

I said I need to speak to him

and of course it comes out ah

my cousin’s a bricklayer we could get him

and I’m like let’s just see what the brickie’s got to do

long story short I rang up the bricklayer

I said look mate

tomorrow morning I need to meet you on site

we need to have a chat so we turned up and

and he goes what’s wrong

and I’m like well

the walls on the piss yeah

and he goes oh yeah

well you know

the bricks aren’t the right size and this

and I said look

II don’t need the excuses

I said last night I was mad

I said but today I

I just need the problem fixed

he goes well

what do you want me to do

I said well

can you fix it any other way by pulling the wall down

no but we’ve almost done the wall

I said yeah

but it’s not good yeah

I use a few other different words

you know some colourful ones yeah

for me it was all about trying to keep my cool

but trying to come to a a resolution as well

like I didn’t want him just to storm off and I’ve got

you know

600 odd bricks sitting there that are full of crap that I’ve got

been gotta clean and redo oh

it’s a nightmare

but I also wanted the job to be done properly for the for the client

so I said look

I said mate

we’re gonna pull it down he goes well who’s gonna clean the bricks

hmm I said well I’m here I said I’ll get the apprentice I said

so there’s me and the apprentice I said

and You two like and he turned and goes

I don’t clean bricks so then it become another problem and I’m like

right I said

well today I said

unfortunately you’re gonna have to clean bricks I said because I said

you’ve put us all in the situation I said

so guys what about pay I said well

I think money is the least of the issue at the moment I said

I’m happy to sit down with you and talk about money later on I said

but for now

I need the client to be able to see that you can lay bricks

like you did at that last job

hmm and rectify the problem yeah yeah

so we did we spent the day and look

it was a new bloke so the whole day standing next to a bloke

you probably want to kill at that point in time

but just trying to get I did a lot of work

yeah in in my younger time as a as a carpenter and and other jobs

learning about people

so learning about listening to understand people

rather than to just respond to people

so I just started asking questions about his life

seeing how he was going what was going on

you know how long you’ve been doing this for get an understanding

get that sort of find that common ground

and the apprentice that he had on was brand new

so he didn’t throw the apprentice under the bus

but he was sort of putting that

the apprentice was the one that made the

the wonk right

so we had a chat about obviously

you know yep

I’ve got an apprentice he’s here

his mistakes are my mistakes yeah

so yes he’s learning he’s young

but if he makes a mistake

it’s my mistake because either I haven’t taught him correctly

or we haven’t communicated correctly to him yeah

so he got it by the end of it

we put the wall back up it was all good looks good yeah

look good client come around client was happy

there’s one brick that he sort of picked up which look

II get it

if you’re a client and you’re paying good money for a job

and you see it looking crap yeah

and then you go back and you look at it again

you’re gonna find something ha ha ha

it’s never gonna be you’ve done 100% perfect yeah

it’s pristine yeah

the main thing was it got fixed

and for me

the probably take out it was that if you are going to get a new

new trade to come on board

it is that and look and look

I know we may all meant sign contractors

agreements and that sort of stuff yeah

that was a learn for me

it needs to be in writing because if he had a walked away

then I’m left holding the yeah

and you gotta pay for the new wall yeah

yeah new bricks so to me it was right

you know it it it gone to the days now where it was Matty

you got the job mate don’t let me down yeah

just a handshake yeah

that’s it everything’s right

you got your H&S paperwork you send that out to me yep

I’ve got it put it aside we’re all good

I’ll pay you when you do the work on on completion with the invoice

everyone’s happy

now it’s you’ve got to have that paperwork in place as well

so protect yourself that’s it exactly right

you said earlier you’re um

your apprentic Jorgen yep

he’ Torres Strait Islander yep

that’s what he said so do I think in the past I’ve seen you’ve

you’ve had a fair bit of diversity through through your team

yep and

you know

you’ve definitely looked after blokes from different backgrounds

and where does that come from

like is it

is it just you’ve

you’ve sort of found a knack for

you know some of these young kids that you see a lot of potential in

that you wanna bring through

or like

oh look

I suppose II was lucky enough

when I after I did my apprenticeship I

I was planning with a couple of mates to go around Australia

to Australia why didn’t you do that the first time

so then it became me and the client talking what

it doesn’t matter why I didn’t first time it

the problem’s been rectified I

I get why you’re asking the question

but so

I suppose the big learn for me was that

I’ve always used trades that have either been related to me

mm hmm or have been friends of friends

yeah so

and you’ve known them for a long time

you don’t go outside that scope

no so new

new trades for me

it probably could have been

I probably could have done more a due diligence in

in looking at their work yeah

probably could have

went and got to know him more before we did the job

they all pulled out the last minute

of course left me down

well I’ve got my bags packed

pretty much yeah

and my my now wife

girlfriend at the time she sort of said

so what are you gonna do

I said do you wanna

do you wanna come and she’s like

I was waiting for you to ask me

I’m like great

seven and a half years later

we returned to Melbourne from travelling Australia and working

working our way around Australia

seven and a half years yeah

that’s unreal so it was a good

good time so short trip

yeah short trip

it’s only meant to be a year sort of a lap

but yeah seven and a half years later

and then we went overseas yeah

so we spent the next four years where about

we lived in Scotland for two years okay

and then travelled basically yeah right

so this is before the boys obviously

yeah yeah

before before boys yeah

yeah this is where the age

you see start getting the age get there yeah

and look

people are people are fascinating

II love people

different cultures

different different religions

not the religions got much to do with what we do

but just just different people from different backgrounds

so I don’t really see people as

you know you’ve come from here

I just take people on on face value

and if if you’re honest and hard working

I’ll give you a go

and then you just see where you end up sort of thing

so

well it’s good

it’s good that you got that mindset

and I think

it comes through in the work that you guys do as well

that you’ve just got that genuine care

and appreciation for the trade itself and yeah

like I don’t know

we’ve always gotten along

you’ve been do you know how long you’ve

you’ve been a member with us

cause

I feel like you’ve been around the whole time that I’ve been here yeah

I’m pretty sure when when you guys first started

so one of one of the big things

a small quick background yeah

sure my

my dad was a plumber uh

ended up being a union organiser for the

for the Plumber’s union in Victoria

and I always thought that it’s great to have someone that represents

what you do like this is BLF days

we were dragged to to marches

you know

ha ha down the streets and that’s it

I’ve no no idea what we were doing

but we were there cause dad was there and

you know and look it

I think it’s good and especially I

I suppose what what hurts me the most and

and I’ve mentioned you before even about the

the Instagram post that you guys put up

and then you get these

people piling in on someone’cause they’ve made a mistake

someone’s picked a mistake up and everyone just piles in yeah

I really think that’s sh*t in our industry

I really think we should be more supportive

yeah hundred percent chippies are there from the start

we’re at the start of the job we’re there at the end of the job

we’re probably the least

or the least least paid on site most of the time now

but it’s because we’re constantly being divided by ourselves

and and so when you guys come along

I’m like great

this is what this is what our industry needs for chippies

we need someone to fly the flag for us so yeah

that’s why I jumped on board straight away and and

and you guys done fantastic job and that’s why we’ve

we’ve sort of stayed so I don’t know

I don’t know how long how long you’ve been around for

we’ve where we started in 2013

there you go yeah

so I think I’m pretty sure that you’re one of our yeah

one of our sort of originating members

and it’s just it’s cool to say that you’ve been around for that long

and you know that we’ve

we’ve been able to provide something good for you over the years

and yeah yeah

we’re always trying to you know

push the message out there that we’re

we’re doing good by our chippies

and we’re always evolving and stuff as well

and even in the last 12 months

like

the introduction of all of our new swims and all of our new paperwork

and we got contracts on the way

which yeah which we’ve been working on

so it’s just other things you’d be able to tap into as a chippy

you’re too we went on with

Master Builders

mm hmm so we became a master tradesman of course but again

you’re buying your membership and and unless you need them

there’s not really a lot in there for for for carpenters

there’s a lot in there for builders

don’t get me wrong they got they got heaps of information builders

but for carpenters themselves

you basically just buying

the sticker that goes on the back of your car

to say master tradesman yeah

sort of thing to get more street credit I suppose yeah

but you guys actually provide information for chippies for us and

and for for generations coming through

around what we do it’s not it’s not irrelevant stuff

there’s there’s stuff obviously you provide more of which is good

but it’s about what we do it’s about our trade

which I think we need cause otherwise well

HIA is another one like don’t get me wrong

we’re HIA members again

they’re more builder focused than they are specific trade focused

which like like a like a chippy so yeah

we need you guys to keep doing what you’re doing

because it’s the only way

if you’re a chippy where do you get your information from

there’s there’s no other place to get it from

HIA is not gonna help you

Master Builder is not gonna help you

the Bunnings is not gonna help you yeah

Bowen’s might help you we we buy stuff from Bowen’s yeah

now look

I just think it need you need to have something

a point of reference for any trade

like master plumbers there’s a

there’s a master plumbers yeah

so they they look after plumbers

but our trade is different now too from when I first started

so when I first started it was carpentry joinery

so we did both sides of it

that’s right now it seems like it’s being split into segments now

like you you well

you’re a framer there’s this thing about I’m a

I’m a carpenter framer like well

we do framing too yeah

so you should be able to do it all

and that’s the thing yeah

it should be all and

and if not then it should

you should be able to have reference to well

if I can only do that section

how do I cross over to then get that section to become a full chippy

yeah not

not just a part chippy yeah

what about what’s a myth that you’d like to bust about carpentry

or the building world what do you

what’s something that you hear all the time

that it’s easy and we make a lot of money

that’s

oh

I don’t know look

I’ve been in it for 32 years yeah

and I love it still yeah

I love more probably the myth is that we don’t do a lot of paperwork

there’s more paperwork now than

than ever so the more you climb yeah

in your position the more paperwork you’ve got to do yeah

I still love just putting the belt on and getting out and

and making something and yeah

you do get a monster still to this day yeah

yeah I still love it

so and look at the

trying to keep fit probably the

the myth

alright I’ve got one for you

the myth is that your back will be good forever

your back won’t be good forever

you need to look after your back

yep that’s No. 1

and I know young guys if you

if you’re listening and you’re out there

it won’t happen to me that was me yeah

same thing until it does happen to you and you go

oh shit I need my back yeah

so yeah

you said that you know

32 years

what is something that keeps you motivated after such a long time

some people lose their love for the trade

is it just you’ve got that innate sort of love for it in you or what

where does it come from it’s the

it’s a seeing the finished result at the end of the day

knowing that you’ve put in your eight hours or

or 10 hours yeah

and you can and you can see that result for

for the time you’ve put in and

and look again

that was one of my hardest things going from

on the tools to off the tools

is you don’t see that instant result

that instant gratification of seeing what you’ve built in a day

off the tools the paperwork it’s

it’s a more of a longer process yeah

so you can sit there like yesterday I spent a day in the office

quotes invoicing

all all the fun stuff

all the good stuff yeah

yeah get

get into it it’s

it’s awesome by 5:00 I’m

I’m walking out the door to go to the local footy club for

for footy club committee meeting and I’m just sitting there going

what did I accomplish today

yeah that’s it

even though you probably done plenty

oh there’s heaps

there was heaps of heaps of heaps that happened

but you don’t physically see it

so and

and I think there’s an ad on television

where the dad’s driving and pointing out the things

yeah to his son and my boys hate it cause they’re like

they’re like that house they’re like that house

it’s it’s

it’s pride in what you do yeah

so when when you

when you’re proud of the work you put in

especially when you know it

it’s really good work you wanna

you wanna keep doing it because you look and go f**k

I did that I made that yeah

that’s that’s me

you know and

and my team and look

I love bagel so the team around is

is an important thing yeah

and just having that

that banter throughout the day

you know keep it interesting yeah

yeah I think you really sort of exemplify

sort of what Carpentry Australia is all about

which is chippies

you know proud members and people that are that are just doing

you know good work and just great blokes in the process as well

so I really appreciate you coming in and no worries talking to me and

you know give me your your background and you know

you’re a legend now you’ll be a legend in the future yeah

where can anyone find sort of Kingsford carpentry and what’s your what

where can I find you ah

so we’re we’re based in in Coburg

so the other other side of town yep

we don’t I like to travel right just around the block yeah

that’s it yeah

any jobs in Coburg yeah

just Coburg now look

we we go I suppose that we we probably do within probably 10

15 k of the city

but from the city northern round to round to probably part of east

I suppose north eastern okay

we don’t try and tend to go this side of town yeah

although it’s beautiful out here yeah

just for travel just for just for time

we did a we did a big job in you end up in a Ute for too long yeah

Karen Downs we did a we did a 6 months six months down there yeah

OK on uh

light and easy we did their office refurbs OK

for for another builder an English builder

my old boss I did my apprenticeship with oh

there you go he lives in Western Australia

who told me it was just in Melbourne and I’m like

this is not Melbourne it is if you live in Carrum Downs

it is Melbourne but it’s too far away from me to be Melbourne so yeah

look and you’re right

it’s that time in the year

that you sit there and you don’t get that back yeah

never and you can’t yes we’ve got phones

but you can’t do work on your phone

you you I ended up I spoke to

my mum more times than ever because she’d love you after that job

I mean mum yeah

I said she’s like you’re not working there anymore

no mum I’ll come and see you instead this time so yeah look

probably close probably probably that northern

you know western corridor sort of thing

and the and the socials and stuff as well

we’re we’re yeah social media Instagram Facebook

we’ve got the other ones we don’t do anything on them okay

Google we’re big on Google

and you said any

any young apprentices or people that are out that side

you’re you’re sort of you know

you’re open to potentially bringing some more people on as well yeah

yeah

so we’re we’re gonna be looking probably towards the end of the year

we’ll look at taking a

probably another chippy and another apprentice on

but I’m also if if you’re out that way

and even if you wanna have a chat

just look us up and and have it

I’m I’m more happy to talk to people about our trade and what we do

it’s I think the more supportive we can be

the younger tradies and

and chippies that the better the industry is gonna be for us

cause it is it’s changing

it’s changing quite a bit

so and we want more we want more cause I don’t know if you know

and I might be wrong

but we’re gonna be where the money is in in the future

so with with Al and all that coming in

there’s gonna be a lot of different jobs that are gonna go SO

but no one can ever take away what you can do with your hands yeah

and any last words about sort of CA or about yourself

or about anything else that sort of sprouts

our team loves what we do we’re happy to talk to anyone

we do renovations extensions bathrooms kitchens

mate I don’t know everything everything that’s all we do perfect yeah

perfect I appreciate you coming in and you know

it’s been a good bloke to talk to and you know I’m

I’m excited for sort of what the next

sort of 6 months looks for you guys

as well awesome

thanks buddy thanks again mate cheers mate see you soon