Welcome back to the Carpentry Australia podcast
I’m here today with Mister Joseph Canavan
do you wanna introduce yourself
yep so Joseph Canavan
Director of Canavan Constructions
Carpenter for 8 years now
OK coming up to 8 years
background pretty much mainly in residential construction
started out with a company just doing small stuff
so like small bits of bathrooms
renovations here and there
and yeah when I had a decent size euro trip when I was in mid 2015
2016 and I sort of had a realization
I was like I just wanna do
I wanna be able to come out and say
I wanna have a complete understanding of all aspects of carpentry
like you know
start to finish
and I knew I wasn’t able to get that where I was so left
and then was with that builder for six years
there’s carbon light and yeah
really shaped the way that I
I think it definitely
it shifted the way that I saw like from just like being a carpenter
like like really
like trying to master the craft of like carpentry
and like taking like heaps of pride
and like the way that you show up
like the way that you dress
the way that you talk
like everything was like a well rounded like piece of art so to speak
like yeah
like the way that you present and the work that you do is all like
bundled together
yeah where does that thinking come from like where
you know
cause there’s not a lot of chippies out there that think that way
and sort of have such a oh yes
a high level you know
expectation of the
the trade in themselves and sort of put it into all aspects
where did you where did you have it
that was it was definitely my second boss
Burkard from Carbon Light
he’s a German trained carpenter
so I was always under like European trained carpenters essentially
you know they’re always walking around like
you know pants like you have you seen the German like carpenter pants
like they’re like they’re like
it’s like a full uniform so they got the vest and stuff
but they didn’t make me wear that luckily
but yeah that’s all like pants tucked in like if you were on site like
like in the morning
you’re cold like hand out of your pockets like hood down like
you know it was just like drilled into me from the start
it was just like you know
like don’t like
like just like yawn or stuff in front of clients and stuff
he’s like you need to be like present
like if you’re yawning like yeah
I’d be tired but you know
you’re not like in someone’s face
it’s like it’s a bit like insulting
yeah of course
I think he drilled that into me
and then it sort of made me like have a greater appreciation for like
the small things and like
I’ve had like conversation with people like
oh I don’t think it’s that like you know
I know guys who don’t who don’t take it that seriously and they’re
you know they’re a better carpenter than me
they’ve been in it for longer
but I don’t think that makes a difference to me
like I think I can still put the same effort into
all these small things that add up
and clients see the difference
and you can’t convince me otherwise
that clients don’t look at someone differently
to when you come up and you’ve got
you know your clean clothes
you’ve got you know your your guys aren’t like
you know swearing on site or this sort of thing and the comparison
it’s just yeah I feel like
it just brings a different level of pride to the work that you do
but yeah long story short from my boss and yeah
I think it just sort of grew from there and just yeah
I don’t know even like I watch a lot of stuff online
like I learn like
I basically use Instagram and like YouTube as like a tool to learn
and just look at like all these other guys on there
I’m like alright
this is what these guys are doing
I can implement this I can do this
and I love like Japanese carpentry
like all the traditional carpentry and like the way that they like
you know watch like a documentary on it and they turn up like
you know two hours before
and they’re like in the workshops and they’re like
sharpening their chisels and like fine tuning their planes
and yeah everything just set out and it’s
it’s a process instead of just like
throwing everything in the back of the Ute and be like yeah
chuck it in like you know
there’s a different sense of
sort of pride and professionalism and you know yeah
it’s it’s really is an artwork
you know that doesn’t that gets I guess taken for granted yeah
well yeah
hundred percent so your obviously I think
one of the main things that I guess stands out
you know from talking to a bunch of members and talking to yourself
is that I’ve always seen that level of craftsmanship from you
and I think you’ve always had that level of
your attention to detail is like
is not there’s not many people out there that have that
and some of the ones that do
they’re obviously extremely
you know
valued in the industry is having that kind of attention to detail
so what with your branding
and sort of how you’ve ended up doing different types of work
like what what is the type of work that you love to
that you love to do and that you sort of would show up for every day
hmm yeah
so I love doing a fine finished carpentry so from I think yeah
came back to my old boss he always said like
you know you’ve got to find like your niche
he’s like it’s good to have the broad skills
but you can’t you can’t be a specialist
like it
it doesn’t make sense like
a specialist is someone who focuses on one thing
and is extremely good at it yeah
he’s like and if that’s what you wanna do
then that’s what you have to do
like you can’t be a specialist in generalist things
so to speak so like that’s where I’ve gone down the path
and I know I can’t compete with like framing crews who’ve got like
you know 10
15 guys
so I just sort of knew I loved like doing the detailed stuff like
you know like external
like timber cladding like all
like figuring out like reveals and step downs and like
how things are gonna transition and what pieces meet where and
like internal like a lot of like
like anything that takes a lot of detail to think
and you look at it and like
not everyone would see it
but like you know
train Carpenter say well
that’s a really nice transition
like how this piece is lined up here yeah
and like how they built this wall out to be
you know everything is thought about yeah
it’s all satisfying yeah
it’s very satisfying to look at and like again
that’s why I love like Instagram
cause you just see these like these guys I follow
I’m like like
that’s what are some of the talking about Instagram
what are some of the things that you feel like you’ve Learned
you know like even just recently
what’s some stuff that you’ve picked up and you’ve gone like
f*ck that’s really good
and you know
I’m that’s something I wanna implement into
into my business or into how I operate myself
yep anything you picked up recently
two main things I’ve got a project coming up and I watched
Fanta Constructions have you seen him
yep legend
he did this video early on about skylights or he had it like a
a curved frame and the way it was cut on the Rake of the roof
so you could basically pre assemble the thing
lift it in and I was looking through his stuff
I was like f*ck
I’m gonna use that that it’s brilliant
so like I’ve already like marked that video
I’m like yep
this is what I’m gonna do when I come to this part
the second one was I watch a lot of stuff on like van
like reorganization
and like the importance of keeping your tools like systematized
cause you know
you may think like small things here and there
you can just chuck it in and it’s fine
but like when you’ve got you know
a couple of like guys I like to collaborate with
and you sending people out to the venue
like everything’s clearly labelled
you know yeah
and everything gets taken care of
you know everything’s in this box and this and that
and eventually I’d love to get to that stage where
you know maybe you have another guy to on
and they’re set up with the same system
yeah and you know
everyone’s just running officially
you’re not like oh
let me check if I’ve got this like
you know you’ve got systems like QR codes
you scan in like when like things are running lower stock
you can know automatically I need to top this up
I need to do this and it just takes away from the from the
I guess the memory load you need to worry about one less thing or like
you know a 20 minute trip down to Bunnings
so yeah they’re the two main things is that skylight detail
which I really liked
and then the like the van wrecking organisation from
from Spencer Lewis they’re inside a carpentry
it’s an American guy yeah OK
yeah cool cool
there is you know
the crazy part is I didn’t realise how well
obviously America’s huge
and they’ve got some unbelievable influences and carpenters
and you know I think I saw there was
I think it’s like there’s like awesome framers or awesome frame
yeah or
you know roof slayer 2
6 double I said it here
yeah I said it here
like these guys have just got unbelievable followings
but the the level of work that they do is is crazy
and I think there’s a lot to learn from
from their sort of industry as well
and sort of seeing outside the scope of what Australia does yeah
and yeah do you see that as well
that they’re sort of a little bit ahead in certain areas
and yeah
like what do you take from you know some of these blokes from overseas
yeah so I think we’re quite behind
I think we are held back a bit partly some by mentality
I think also the way that their
their code over here is being structured isn’t very helpful yeah
at all with how they’re you know
we can go into a whole discussion about like
you know how we are behind New Zealand with the leaky buildings
and then coming over here and not using correct wraps
and you sort of chasing your tail everywhere you go
trying to meet these targets for homes yeah
and they’re not even being built properly so but anyways
that’s a whole other issue
I think I think definitely the way
the way that we build compared to over there
what’s standard to over here like
you know
I still drive past sites and you see guys using Silver Sarking and
you know these these clients are paying like
you know they’re trusting these builders and it may look good
you know yeah but it’s not gonna perform because of the
what’s underneath and what’s actually in the structure of it
so I think they put a lot more emphasis on that yeah
and things like the build show over there
the big network they have of like
you know professionals are on there who are explaining details
and you can reference things and
you know a lot of guys from like Sanford yep
he’s been I think he does a fair bit to do with the build job
like Jack Britton and and Matt Risdon
Joe on there as well and yeah
I think that’s that’s one of them
but the other one
which I do see is there isn’t like what we have over here is like
you know carpenters who do like
you know
frame fix fit off everything that sort of thing like over there
they don’t they don’t really have a lot of that like
like the companies who have crews will do that
but like
if you notice like when they’ve got like their finishing guys
they have a lot like they have a lot higher detail like what they
what we do over here but I feel like we’re starting to slowly move
towards an aspect of that
like it’s important to be able to understand from start to finish
uh huh how to do aspects across the job
but it’s people starting to slowly separate themselves into like
the speed and the accuracy of framing
and then guys who were like doing the fine finish work yeah
it’s like if you’re not doing one of the other either day
it’s not like it’s not productive or cost efficient yeah
so if you’re looking at cost efficiency for for me to go up in there
someone who’s like you know
the guys who I use for framing yeah
they run rings around me every single day
but then the other way vice versa
they can’t get the details to the
to the level that that that I like to think that I can get it to yeah
for the speed yeah
so and they have a lot of that like
you know they have like framers
all you see him doing is framing like OSB roofs
like valley like awesome like detailed ridges and
and valley rafters and all these sort of things you like wow
that’s really cool yeah
that’s cool
and then you see the other guys who are like inside a carpentry
and they’re just doing all finish work or trim millwork
as they call it so I think was
I think I’m starting to see
and that’s what I’m trying to sort of push
and had a few chat to builders about like
I’m not like I’m not gonna be doing I’ll do you internal like you know
some internal framing stuff for you
I’m not gonna take the whole thing on because it’s not cost effective
yeah and you sort of know your spot or what you’re good at
and sort of what you wanna be
you know yeah
you don’t wanna be focusing on
you know finishing these frames
yeah no
it’s not it’s not your kettle fish
no and
and I mean I
I enjoy it but I don’t love it
like I really love like
getting to bring out the finer details in a product and in a project
and working with buildings and saying
this is this is how I like
I see I see what you’ve gone what
what are we thinking like how we gonna achieve the end detail
like for the best result possible
yeah and like yeah
early collaboration is another big part of that
like I’m working with a few builders at the moment and just like
you know just like in the pre construction process
yeah and got a decent size project coming up next year
and it’s good to be involved early to say like
you know
like really nice ornate like ceilings and things that are coming in
and you just you get really excited
yeah and he’s like
what do you like what do you reckon
and you don’t get that involved if it’s
if there’s not an area of specialization
yeah well
I think I’m trying to remember
but didn’t you
didn’t you redo a church or something recently that had some nice
yeah like there was
some stained glass that needed to be preserved
and then obviously you had to reuse some of the
the actual sort of timber
I guess some of the resources that were there you had to sort of reap
yep so can you tell me a bit
little bit about that job
yeah so that was actually one of my favourite jobs I’ve done
that was in North Melbourne at a church that actually
Catholic church that I go to
and yeah
so Father Portus aside and they had like this
an area of the chapel which was just built off
it was still the original structure
but they put a dividing like
it was looking like a cheap
sort of timber dividing wall or door there
that had some stained glass in it
yeah and he said
I wanna have it matching to what is existing and
which is a little bit tricky cause it was like
like stone like rendered stone
like smooth stone so to speak
it was beautiful yeah yeah
so really really nice
so we pulled down the old
timber wall and reused the stained glass in the wall
but created new windows to make it look like it was actually thicker
and built in and we redid
there was only one pitch like on the
on the pitch of the roof and it was sort of squared off
so we repitched that side to Rake into the ceiling
to make it look like a mini chapel
so it was a chapel yeah
it is a chapel yeah and yeah
and then we like we redid the front
front door and I had a nice stained glass window in it as well
I think just yeah even though I work on a lot of cool modern projects
I still like think that there’s a lot of beauty lost
in the way that we used to build
the style of the buildings
and like yeah
I think part of me is a little
even though I’m happy to work on these amazing projects
but I’m a little bit sad seeing the
the details in this that we’re sort of letting go of yeah
you know what I think that something that definitely is is changing
and this is something that I’ve noticed and maybe
you know you’re in the building game so you’d know all about it
but there is a little bit of that character coming back in
to the building trade
so people are sort of a little bit more interested now in
you know the finer details
and things that look a little bit more architecturally
you know
interesting and it’s not really just about these big modern brick
you know or you know
brick looking houses
that just don’t really have much soul or anything to them
are you seeing a little bit of that as well
do you reckon there is some detail that’s coming back in
yeah yeah
somewhat I still think we are quite stuck in there
like the architects sort of world like
where like they like like
and the clients will come into them and say oh
these big open spaces
and that’s like cost efficient to like a flat roof
yeah yeah
that box garden yeah
that’s that’s what box garden is like the builder’s nightmare
just say
let’s have the gradient inside there
the picture of the roof
but yeah I
I think definitely I’m seeing more coming back
but not not as much as I’d like
I love working on I love working on those old houses
and even just getting to like
preserve or extend at a similar style of them
and you can see like you know
you look at a doorway and like these doorways now
they take
and they still require a ridiculous amount of skill to make these
like custom doorways and stuff that we have now
like when they’re pre done from hardwood and it’s beautiful
you put them in but then you compare that to what they’re making like
alright well
these guys hundred and 20 years ago wouldn’t have had these tools
no they wouldn’t have had these
and then you say and you look really close
and there’s like a couple mill difference between these things
that these are all like handmade
like handcuffs it’s impressive that they were able to get it that yeah
you know and you and you just I was speaking with
with Anthony about saying that
like these guys would have been sitting on this for like 3
4 weeks like with
with a saw with a plane with everything just dialing it in
like getting it perfectly
like it’s a like a different level of like
patience and precision that they would have had
with the tools they were working with yeah
yeah I think
I think definitely it’s making the
the features are making it come back
maybe not so much the style
see like you know
few Victorian sort of style new
new ones being built so to speak
but I feel like we are very much at the mercy
not the mercy but like
I guess of of
of what’s
in trend right now yeah
which is the big you know
well it’s think the trends change as well
you know like mullets yeah
have come back and you know
flared jeans and done a lot of volleys are on their way
you know like all these
all these things that sort of go out of fashion
they end up coming back at some point
but it’d be cool to see more of that in the building
it like I’m a big lover of
I love the heritage I love the fact that Melbourne preserves
you know and some of our other states as well preserve
you know some of these old builds and they don’t
they don’t allow you to change
you know something that was once beautiful
you know and they wanna make sure that have you worked on some
some heritage stuff before
or have you have you got an interest in the heritage side as well
yeah yeah
we do a lot of heritage like repairs
repairs and I hear the complaints from clients like
I wish I could just knock this thing down
I just have to bite my tongue like ooh yeah
now we do a lot of like repairs and like doing with Karen Woodcraft
yeah and I do like all the all night like
you know pre done
like you just take him the template
this is what we need I love it
like you just give it like a whole face lift with a coat of paint
and you just sit down back and you like
it’s like part of history
like they’re not allowed to knock the thing down
yeah so I really
really like it and it yeah
it is a lot more common in like working in a city
when people call you up like fingers crossed
like maybe maybe they’ve got another one we can repair or work on
and I still like the like the
the extensions where they’ll keep the
they’ll keep the front
and there’s something a bit more modern on the back
but I do like keeping that that beauty and that history too
that’s I think that’s what’s exciting about it for me is like
you know the history that’s in the place yeah
built like like the colleges and they’ve been here for
you know the thing is there’s like 100 year old houses that
you know you
you you see the front facade of it
like that’s sort of that’s what it looked like all this time ago
and then you go inside and then it’s got these beautiful
you know concrete kitchens
and I’ve got like these big sort of like skylights and all this stuff
that’s all modern you know
yeah inside
but you’re right
that sort of being able to see sort of where it came from
and sort of how it’s how it’s changed over the years is unreal
and the handrails and like the
like we’re working on one at Albert Park at the moment
it’s almost done and it’s just
you just see it and it’s just like you
it’s like pine lining like ceilings
like you know
ornate posts like yeah
corners trim work
like it’s just yeah gorgeous
yeah it’s just awesome
and then like it gets coated
it gets painted like modern
it’s like a black sort of colour
yeah but it’s like you still see the
the heritage facade you like this is like what it was like
I think it was like 130 years old
yeah it’s unreal
and it’s just like this is awesome and
and we’ve we’ve like Pat
like we Pat like fix the handrail like new to what
what the old one
used to look like and put the new boards up and you know
this is gonna last like another you know 70 80 years yeah
and that’s and then yeah
and then from that that’s like 200 years of history
250 years of history
so you sort of getting your hands on on parts of history that
you know the next generation will be like
how do we preserve this and keep this so we remember
you know what we started from to like what where we are now
and who knows what the trends are gonna be yeah
I know by then like houses in the in the sky and I’m like God
they just be who knows yeah
it’s incredible what about like the
the next generation of chippies that are coming through
cause you’ve you know you’ve got your eight to 10 years of
you know construction that you’ve you’ve got in the
in the books yeah
what advice would you give to you know
some young kids that are coming through
or even someone that wants to start an apprenticeship in carpentry
what what advice would you give for them
I would say don’t be afraid to make mistakes is a really big one
and something I’m very very valuable
I’m very grateful to my last to my to my firs boss Burkard
he very he really instilled that into me
I was I used to be
I was someone who’s very like very picky and like very hard on myself
I played football growing up and I was just like I wanted to play AFL
so I was just like any little mistake I did
it’s like pick yourself up
I was just really pick myself apart
and he said it’s great that you have that
but he’s like you can’t let it affect the next stage of your work
he’s like when you make a mistake stop
what did I do how can I fix it if I don’t know how to fix it
get somebody but come to them and say this is what I’m thinking
this is what I’ve done like don’t go expecting answers
like have like think a few steps ahead like what you like
and you know
the further you move up the further you have to think ahead yeah
and it sort of just trains that process
and then you do that enough times and you’re just
you already thought of like things pop up
you like you don’t have to get someone and you don’t have to like
get their help but yeah
just accept the fact that you’re gonna make mistakes
and that it’s alright like it’s gonna like it’s gonna happen yeah
it’s gonna happen yeah we make mistakes all the time
and the best chippies like that run rings around me
I know like they make mistakes but they don’t they just like yeah OK
yeah we fixed it you fix it
move on from it it’s
it’s you know
it’s it that’s all it’s as easy it has to be
but yeah I think yeah
taking yeah
taking pride in what you do
and the speed like take
take your time and the speed will come yeah
so like learn to do it right yeah
and then slow don’t worry about like rushing
rushing rushing
I still keep a good good pace
but the the speed will come with
with the understanding and the confidence of the task you’re doing
it’s not all about just
smashing things out as quickly as you possibly can
cause yeah you’re not really gonna learn from no yeah
and another one
which is a little bit out of the box
but I like to like I my mates give me a lot of crap for it
but I talk to myself
like when I’m doing like tasks and working like that
so I’m like so I always got told like
you know if you can talk it out like
and you’re worrying like oh
is this gonna work you can say alright
well this is gonna span from here to here
and if this detail comes here
and you’re just thinking it up instead of being in your head
like I was always somebody just likes to like think
so if you have to just like say it out loud and then like
if it makes sense and you can explain it to somebody else you like
it’s probably a logical thing that I yeah
proceed with um
it’s clever yeah
that’s I I do it all the time
I get a lot of crap
they’re always like you know
Joey’s that is weird like talk to yourself
it’s the first sign of madness as I’ve been told
so yeah yeah
that’s alright what about the
the builders that you work with
so you work with a lot of high end builders
yeah you work with architects and stuff as well
question I always like to ask is
what do you think makes a good builder great
what’s what separates the two
hmm yeah
I’ve been very very lucky to work with a lot of like really good
like high end builders I think for me
I value organisation
like organisation and systems and also just trust
I feel like that’s a big one
sometimes you work on projects where like
it’s sort of essentially being a little bit micromanaged
but like when a builder can say
this is what this is what I expect and this is what I trust
here is the here is the systems that I have
this is like and just lay it out for you
there you go like please deliver me the product
yeah I feel like yeah
like a a building a relationship of
of trust and yeah an organisation and communication and
and being able to clearly communicate your point
the end image that you want
but also like you know
if you’re not happy with something like how do you react to that
yeah I think it’s a big thing in the industry
like the old the old school way of just like
you know yelling at somebody and
and having a go
and then that was acceptable is like sort of going out the window
like I still think I still I don’t think you need that
if you if you’re teaching
carpenters and apprentices to have a really high standard of work
and you’re saying that’s not acceptable
like that’s all that needs to be said
like if if someone’s mucking around and being silly on top
that’s a different conversation
but there’s no need to like berate somebody or yell at them
or some of the stuff you see people do is like
there’s just absolutely like no need for that
because you don’t learn from a
from a perspective or or like a mindset of fear
because when you make a mistake
you’re already nervous about the next time
oh yeah and and if you know you’ve got someone idiot
like why are you doing this
like you know
it’s
it doesn’t break that like the the best builders that I’ve worked for
they they accept that you’re gonna make mistakes
they they have high standards so they hold you accountable for it
but they’re like good people
like they they’re good
they have good people skills and good communication skills yeah
I think it’s a big sign that somebody is yeah
I guess they struggle to communicate as if or
or like regulate their emotions as if
you know they’re gonna scream at somebody over such a small mistake
yeah like that’s probably not like I got the best reaction yeah
it doesn’t and it doesn’t breed positive like movement and like
and trust in them as a person hmm
you’re not gonna come back to them for no
you know if something else goes wrong
you you might sweep it under the rug or
you know not yep
not tell them about it or no
it just sort of doesn’t breed for good collaboration on site
no and if you can’t go to it’s almost like if you
you know in relationships and stuff as well
you should always be able to go to your partner
and talk to them about things
and if you’re worried you’re gonna cop flack for it yeah
you know
it’s the same sort of out on a on a on a building site that you yeah
you wanna be able to have that communication and and yeah
not be afraid to to make mistakes because it’s part of it yeah
100% it’s part of it and it’s yeah
it’s I
I always have it on so like if anyone makes a mistake
it’s all they come out and I was like
who did this like
you know it’s a team
so it’s like we did
it was like don’t worry
like we made the mistake yeah
not gonna throw someone under the bus yeah
like yeah
it was him all his fault it’s like
you always I
I except when your brother was yeah
yeah
Shorty used to get blamed for a lot of stuff yeah
I I was
all like big on like
Jocko willing have you yeah
I love Jocko yeah
extreme responsibility yeah
extreme ownership sorry
yeah good
yeah I love that
and I’ve I use that all the time and I always explain like
there’s a mistake mate
I’ll get to work with like working with builders
I get to work with a lot of apprentices and stuff
and if there is a mistake made
I always yep
like that was like us that wasn’t just me because like
they could have made the little thing
but if you’ve got that mindset of
there’s always something that I could have done better
that could have foreseen that or like preempted that yeah
then it’s it’s
it more becomes a team collective and then they’re thinking like that
well I know he’s not gonna throw me under the bus because
and then they’re thinking alright
well if they see someone else doing something or another apprentice
they’re like oh
hang on a second instead of
you know just letting that
person go make the mistake and then having to fix it and say oh
that was their fault you know
I was talking to earlier today actually in uh
did a podcast with Adrian Gillman
who’s a runs a company called Kingsford Carpentry Services
and yeah he’s a
he’s been in the game like 32 years
and great bloke loves the very passionate about and
about carpentry itself and he said a
an unreal thing about apprentices is that if
if his apprentice makes a mistake
it’s he still sees it as his mistake
so he won’t ever be like you know
this is
you’ve done this wrong and this is unacceptable and whatever else
he’ll he’ll sort of approach it
in the fact that if the apprentice makes a mistake
he either hasn’t taught him in
in the right way or communicated in the right way
and it’s it’s sort of up to him to make sure that he rectifies it
or at least helps the apprentice to
to fix whatever problem is in front of him yeah
he’s been in the game like 32 years
and great bloke loves the very passionate about and
about carpentry itself and he said a
an unreal thing about apprentices is that if
if his apprentice makes a mistake
it’s he still sees it as his mistake
so he won’t ever be like you know
this is
you’ve done this wrong and this is unacceptable and whatever else
he’ll he’ll sort of approach it
in the fact that if the apprentice makes a mistake
he either hasn’t taught him in
in the right way or communicated in the right way
and it’s it’s sort of up to him to make sure that he rectifies it
or at least helps the apprentice to
to fix whatever problem is in front of him yeah
but he won’t ever be like
you know no
it was my apprentice that f*ked it
you know and you know I’ll fix it yeah
it’s more you know
I actually I need to teach him more about this or yeah
so these issues don’t come up in the in the future
yep 100% and I’ve been on I’ve been on both ends
yeah and like I’ve been like yeah
on both ends of of that
where you’ve been sort of berated for your mistakes
and then going to a place where your it was
it was acceptable to make mistakes
but it was never acceptable to lie about your mistakes yeah
so it was it was front up
what have you done what’s this
how can we fix it and it and it just again
it just creates a culture where no one’s like everyone like is open
yeah it’s and and and that’s the thing like
I feel like some people have it in their mind
and I probably did to start with
it’s like it’s never acceptable to like make mistakes
like once you’re once you come out of your apprenticeship
you’re a carpenter it’s like that’s it
that’s your time to you can’t make any mistakes
and you know
and then another wise word of wisdom that that the burger gave me was
is like when you are qualified
he’s like don’t think that your learning stops
he’s like
that you just learnt the skills of how like to Carpenter essentially
he’s like this is where the real learning starts because like
there is no umbrella like this is like
you know sort of like fending for yourself now is like
and you’re gonna have to figure things out
and I have like that like it’s like called like a white belt mentality
so we’re always like learning like
so I rock up and there’s nothing that what is it
always the always the apprentice
never the master or always the student
never the master yeah
yeah and there’s that other the other quote
it’s like
uh what was it
it’s like the
the fool will never like never be a in order to be a master
you must first be a fool like
you know what I mean like you have to
you have to learn and you start and I just
there’s no negative from
from having the having having a learning mindset
like where as you think you know it all
there’s a lot of negatives yeah
because a lot could go wrong and you don’t know it all
and you never will know it all yeah
based on the evolving nature of the building industry yeah
there’s always stuff you like
oh again
Instagram you say like
I don’t know you could do that
that’s a good way of doing it
but if you have this thing no
that’s the way we do it that’s the way we’ve always done it well
you’re not gonna learn anything and you’re gonna get left behind
it’s not gonna serve you as well no
the next thing I really wanted to ask you was what
you know you’ve almost a decade in
in carpentry and in the the trade that you love what
what keeps you motivated after all these years
I think there’s a genuine passion now
to be honest with you
when I first got into it it wasn’t something that I knew
like I always wanted to be a carpenter
like I’ve got made
was it sports that you sort of started with and then like
what did you do before carpentry
I did a lot of things yeah
so I always want to play AFL
yep and I like really dedicated myself to play that
but yeah where’d you get to
did you I play AFL yeah
yeah I did a year of AFI
and then the body I just had to make the call like
cause I was working and and really like
if I’m being honest with I just wasn’t good enough
yeah you know what I mean
as much as you like to think all
you know I had a car accident
you have all these sort of things that happen to you
it’s like at the end if I was good enough
I would be playing AFL as well
that would be too good for the game
we can go with that but yeah
I think it was it was a lot
I just wasn’t good enough
um and sometimes it’s hard to accept
but that’s life
so from there I was doing I did sign writing for a year
I got like really fine yeah
like a finer details of the job
before that one of my first jobs I worked as a baker
like a baker’s apprentice for a year while I was
it was sort of work well cause you’d start really early
oh mate
be up at 2:00 yeah
yeah and then I went that
and then originally I thought I was gonna be a sparky OK
yeah so I
I did it a month with my mate and then I realized it wasn’t for me
okay
what was it about cause obviously you ended up in carpentry
what was it that didn’t appeal to you from a Sparky’s perspective
cause a lot of people love being an electrician and
you know yeah
sort of see my best mate’s a Sparky
and I really appreciate the work that he does
but for me
it was just more of a broader building perspective that I was
at the time I was really interested in yeah
and I was like
oh yeah I really wanna like
you know learn how to frame this and that and
and I he was like
maybe the job that he had me on could have been the first one
like crawling in really tight roof spaces
oh yeah
you know when you’re young
you’re like I don’t wanna do this
in the roof all day covered in bloody insulation
yeah but it was
I think also probably part of it was
I got to work with one of my best mates
like he was older than me
so I was like this is cool
but then it’s not gonna be like that forever
yeah and then I got an opportunity to do a trial
uh trial apprenticeship and I liked it
and how old were you when you started
I was just
almost 21 okay
yep yep
so yeah almost 21
and then I did a through a
oh yeah yeah
almost 21 then I did a three year
did my apprenticeship in three years
so I did a pre apprenticeship before my pre trial
yep
he said I’ll be ideal if you had that
so went back did that myself
went with him was there for a year
left to my boss and then did that euro trip in between the
the new boss and then yeah
I was with him for six years
yeah right before I went out on my own
that’s awesome so what is
what’s one myth that you’d like to bust about
you know the trade itself or carpenters
hmm what do you think that there’s some people believe but it’s just
it’s just so far from the truth
I don’t know I feel like sometimes the news and the shows look like
from all the negativity that builders aren’t
sort of professional or trustworthy
and they’re just looking to get money
yep from what like
you know like
like I watch a lot of like the side inspector
yep see
it’s great and you see like a lot of the feedback
like where are all the good builders in Melbourne
well I’ll tell you where all the good builders are
I’m working for them you know what I mean
like it’s just there’s a lot of
really really good builders
but also like really good guys
and I think that is where it’s important to
where I feel like the model has to sort of change
like I understand there’s a market for
you know people first time buyers and people have budgets
but when you’re building sort of that mid tier
like to high level range like the pre construction process is huge
like you need to be engaging builders early
like they need to be designed in
involved in design because
you know there’s a crazy percentage
I’m I could be wrong
but it’s like something like 60 or 70% of plans that get drawn
don’t actually get built that’s why
and that’s because we have a
a industry that’s sort of fueled by people getting money early on like
you know like you get big set of plans drawn
and they don’t have any idea how to price these projects
as well as what the builders
they could have some idea
but these builders I’m working with
they’re like they’re not trying to you know take all your money
they’re like
they have like the like what I the pride I have for carpentry
they have in delivering hi like beautiful homes like
and like they just stand back and they’re like
I love looking at this detail or this or that
but they have genuine like passion yeah
I think one thing if anyone could take that away like listen
that is just like there’s a lot of like amazing builders out there
it’s just about yeah like
I guess meeting and like spending time with them and building that
you know relationship
not just hear my plans give me the price yeah
that’s it because you know
you’re gonna get a lot of cowboys are gonna enter the chat
when you’re doing it that way
cause definitely yeah cause because you’ve
you’ve got an idea of how the build process should go
based on what you’ve done with your
you know your drafter
your architect
and everything that you’ve been involved in to start with
but when you’re walked through the process yeah
the way that I see these builders walk through their clients with
it’s like they’re involved in a lot of the steps like okay
how would you like this
how is how is this room gonna flow from here to here
these are the issues that we could run into
so make sure you leave allowances for this this
this this and you pay for that to start with
yeah and you maybe spend
I don’t really know the cost is myself from that
but like you say you spend 50 grand and like
that’s what a good set of plans will cost you on the pre
construction process but then that saves you down the
down the long run because you don’t get halfway through
or you don’t get
what happens to these poor people on these side inspector shows
where they spend their life savings of four
500 thousand dollars and they’re left with a
a house that’s not built to code
yeah and like more stress than you could probably ever imagine
put on somebody like that
and they’ve they’re hopeless
yeah and they can’t even
they don’t even have the money to rectify it or
you know and the builders go under
and then they never come back and fix anything
and yeah you’re right
it is it’s a nightmare waiting to happen
yeah but yeah
I think yeah
to summarize a long Tangent that went on
there are a lot of good builders and
and good people yeah
as builders out there and it’s just about taking the time to meet them
as been told them before going ahead
I think and and
and they’re not out to take your money
they’re out to give you a good job
and make it honest living for themselves and their family
and keep you involved in the process as well
definitely and I think through my experience
cause I’ve been with CA for almost eight years now
and it’s my experiences of
I’ve met so many good carpenters and good builders
and I can only really count on maybe one or one hand really of the
the bad people that I’ve sort of come in contact with yeah
and that’s there’s been thousands of people that I’ve sort of
interacted with over the years
and you’re right I think there’s a lot more good out there
it’s not as doom and gloom as as people sort of say yeah
the the last thing I guess I wanted to talk to you about as well is
you’ve been a member with us for a for a long time
you know and I think you
you found us sort of
do you know what you were looking for at the time
or like why you ended up partnering up with us
I think it was maybe 2018 or 2019
it’s pretty it’s pretty early
it’s pretty early yeah
into you yeah
it was it was pretty much at the very end of my apprenticeship
so my last year of my apprenticeship
I was at TAFE and I saw that you guys had their like
I saw like the grey t shirts you had them back then
I love them yeah
I was like that’s cool
I got one I’m gonna wear one of them
so I like
I like that but I think it was just the way that it was
I don’t think I dealt with you to start with
might have been Rosie
or it would have been
who else who else do we have
we had Mel back then Mel was someone who taught me
there was a few sort of early people in
in the piece yep
but yeah
I’ve been here since 2018 now
so yeah a little while
and they yeah
so they were safe and they were basically like
had information packs and it was free like
you know sign up as apprentice
so I was like well
there’s no real loss here
that’s right I’m not paying anything
I get it’s still free
it’s still free exactly
it’s still free easy to sign up
yeah and yeah
and I was like oh
this is cool and then when it came to the part where I was
you know full time
I was like alright
this is the options and then I was like OK
well what do I get
and I just saw like what I was able to get access to yeah
well to me
it was an no brainer I was like
I can get like you know
your pricing calculators like
and then also so like the trades
uh partnerships like
you know at the time
I don’t think it was Milwaukee back then
there was no we’ve
we’ve had a couple different since the start
yeah well
FXD we ever with FXD we had them in the early stages as well
I think I think you had the FXD socks
or we had like the six pack of the FXD socks that
that probably drew because of that
so yeah that was them as well
but yeah
I think it was just the the transparency and the and the access to
to other brands who are
who are really like by supporting you guys and coming on board like
you know that they have a a care about where the industry is heading
yeah definitely
and I really like the idea that you can show like
you can have that Carpentry Australia card and you be like
this is like a recognised person who’s paying money themselves
to show that I like
I give a crap about what I do
like I take what I do seriously
and they have and like you know
you don’t you don’t pay that money for a membership and like
be a part of an organisation if you don’t care
yeah and that’s the way I saw it
I was like well
that’s a you know
a no brainer to me
and then I saw what you were doing with the charity days
and helping hand work and I was like
yep that’s something that you know that I wanna be a part of
and like anyone who’s you know
putting their time towards things like that
it’s easy like
you wanna surround yourself
with people and be involved with people who are
working towards a greater good
and a greater like forward
like pushing the industry forward and like
leaving the people who don’t wanna
you know
who don’t wanna grow and learn and help like leave them behind yeah
just push forward like this is the way we’re heading
if you wanna jump on board like go for it
that’s right if not then yeah
and there is bigger and bigger and better things coming and you know
we couldn’t do it without support from blokes like yourself
and you know
we love being able to collaborate with just like minded people and
you know it just yeah
we just love what you’re doing
and I’ll I’ll never forget this funny quick story before we wrap up
we were doing the helping hand day in Epping and I think you’d
you’d had a job somewhere else and you
you were gonna come through and help towards the end of the day
and it was probably 43 degrees or something
it was so hot and we had you out the front buddy digging holes and
you know getting the
getting the concrete ready for the
for like the railing that we’re putting in out the front
and no complaints just rig rig out
you know
ready to to get stuck into it and it didn’t matter that you know
you’d rocked up later in the day
you know
you still put in a couple of days with us at that job and you were
you spent almost a whole week at the one that we did in Warrandyte
as well we had a huge job
you were doing all the skirts and all the
the framing and stuff for the
for the inside of that house that was getting renovated
and yeah yeah
like it’s been
it’s been a pleasure to be able to do that stuff with you
so no it was great
thanks for always popping in and
you know look after us
always happy to always happy to
that was it that was a memorable job
that one over you did look after
so you got us a drink at the end
so that’s right we get some power raise yeah
that was it yeah
well thanks for talking with me today man
where can
if anyone wants to find you
you know
what’s your socials and where can people get in touch with you
yeah so I’ve
socials are just caravan constructions on Instagram
I have Facebook but not I need to get a little bit better at
at being active on there but yeah
post everything to the Instagram account and yeah
always looking for
for new people and like kind of people to work with and along with
I love like collaborating with
with a lot of chippies
and just the way that I model things at the subcontractors
so yeah get in touch if you ever wanna join together an
and do a few cool projects
but yeah pretty much that’s it
just socials at uh
Canadian Constructions and yeah awesome
that’s it awesome
I love your work bro
thanks for having us today man
all good thank you appreciate it